yes you are right...but sex-appeal and funny little & cuttie scenes are things that i don't see really often al leyton and things that i cant enjoy at them....A lot of leytons fans tell me that brucas is only sex...maybe you think like this because you never saw a real atraction before in leyton couple....and it's not only about leyton...it's about peyton...I love her in some seasons...but i will never forget how much I hate her in season 4(at the beginig)...One tree hill is a serial when nobody is perfect...any of all the characters...brooke wasn't sow cuttie in season 1....peyton was ewwwwww in season 4.....nathan was a bastard in season 1...and a lot of things.....but god...I'll never forget the episode when peyton was asking brooke if she loved him....she knows that brooke was crazy about lucas...and lucas about brooke(god...he pimp her locker....he forgive her for all she did with chris....he was in love woth her) but peyton don't stop and this is not right....maybe now they love eachother....but in season 4 at the begining for peyton it was obssesion..really now....When you love someone you wanna see him happy...he was with brooke and he was happy....when everything is just about obssesion...then you wanna see him next to you...and yes...that what she wants...and god....where was lucas...was her too....if lucas goes to mall..peyton is there...if lucas goes to disco...peyton is there...if lucas goes to hell...peyton follow him....WTF??? Brucas is not only about sex..and it's not only about sex-apealle....they have a lot of amazing moments toghetor...but you know it's more sweetie to see a combinatin between atraction and true love....between chemistry and feelings...that combination was really perfect....and..yeah ..you are right guys is my opinion..brucas was something that I wanna see again....and please if you want go to www.youtube.com and pes LEYTON vs. BRUCAS...Mark is talking about these two different couples and he tell something like this: I know everybody thing that leyton is my truly love in this serial...they are the ideea of romance in this tv show ...but is not right....I can change the couples....( i don't really understand what he said...but i understand that one...)..sow like I said...if Mark hve a strange dream he can change all the tv shows.....brucas wasn't only just sex-appeal...this is one thing that I wiss to see it again at one couple....but....little hopes....XbrucasX

like i said before, sex appeal is one thing... but what about true love that you feel secure with? yes having sex appeal is great, but i would glady give that up if it meant having a relationship built on true love, like Leyton has. i would much rather my relationship have more love and connection and trust than sex appeal. so while Brucas (may have) had more sexual chemistry than Leyton, i still prefer the love and connection that Leyton has hands down... in comparission to the sex appeal, and high school love that faded, which is what Brucas had

and actually if you go to youtube and watch Mark's interviews, he does nothing but talk about how MEANT TO BE LEYTON IS... and how he has "always known" that Leyton is the couple he wants. sure he always says stuff like "never say never" in his interviews too, but i think its obvious that he just says that stuff to throw Brucas fans a bone, so they wont be pissed off or feel left out.

as a matter of fact, in one of his most recent interviews (an article, not video), he used the words "the triangle is romantically OVER", when he was asked about season 6, after Lucas chose Peyton at the airport. those were his exact words, and i think that speaks for itself :)

roxy, I don't think brucas was just sex appeal - it's just that it was very dominant in their relationship. Their love did not go deep enough - they both admitted it in season 4 episode 8. You can't dispute that. As for what you said about peyton following lucas everywhere you could say the same thing about lucas. He followed peyton EVERYWHERE and brooke as well as lindsey pointed that out. Leyton were inseparable. Don't put it all on peyton. In season 1, luke was constantly following peyton around. In season 3 luke couldn't help but choose peyton over brooke time and time again. In season 4 while luke claimed he was "fighting" for brooke what was he doing? Hanging out with peyton every other second.

kellyerin87, I won't dispute that Mark has established Leyton as his "meant to be" couple. I agree. However, I still find it to be one of the worst arguments. It's not necessarily the fact that he has "always known" that Leyton is the couple he wants, because I can understand that the same way I understand how any fan of Leyton does...it's a matter of preference. IMO though, Mark has done a poor job of executing Leyton in a way that is generally accepted. As devout an LP fan as Mark portrays himself to be, I suppose I just expected a more compelling depiction these star crossed lovers. I mean, I like the general idea of Leyton; destined, fated, etc. I even really like the way that L & P journeys both individual and together are so bound by music and art. But for me, Leyton stops there...it never transcended the barrier between what makes a couple good vs. great, and Mark is to blame for that. His epic love story is supposed to be unique and compelling, yet what he gives me is a story of two selfish characters, who repeatedly lie and cheat together, hurting the ones they love the most, because that is what true love makes you do? Now, I apologize for being a bit aggressive in that assumption...It's only how I view their relationship, but none the less...IMO Mark ought to have put more time and effort creating the "epic LP love story" he has in his head and describes in interviews, and put it into fruition via the actual script, because that is what makes a couple "meant to be," not a shot out from the shows creator on E! News every other day. Mark's insistence is a large part of the reason I feel LP is overrated, and thus dislike them. If they were written to be these destined lovers, as I believe they were supposed to be, it should be proven without a shadow of a doubt by their journey...and while some people see that progression as "always there" and inevitable, I see it as bits and pieces with great potential, thrown together with moments of complete and utter disaster (i.e. "There's this girl Brooke Davis..." or the "Oh" response to Peyton's I love you, the 3 year gap they went on being IN LOVE with other people after nearly getting engaged, or the famous "I hate you") All of those moments, intended to prolong this tortured couple's true happiness, only wasted away at my patience and stomach. I'm not saying these moments are ALL bad, I just feel that the idea of being "meant to be" in this case is great, but Mark's vision of LP and what I see must be two entirely separate entities.

Now, call it what you will, sex appeal or chemistry, either way when it comes down to it, for me Brucas had that extra something in their physical connection, that Leyton for the most part (IMO after S1) lacked. And considering OTH is a television series, not a series of novels like say Twilight, viewers rely heavily on visual cues to fill in the blanks that may have been elaborated on in writing. With that being said, love triangles play out differently on TV than paper, and I think Brucas is a definite winner in that category. Stories and circumstances aside, I truly feel that physically/on screen Brucas still has a far greater connection than Leyton. I am probably biased but it would be interesting to ask a viewer who has never watched the show before, if they felt like Brucas still had feelings for each other. BC...the storyline obviously points to no, but based on pure carnal instincts I would bet alot of them would agree that there is "something" still there. For Brucas fans, its all we've got left, at this point.

Abs...lol...What was Lucas doing in Season 4...hmmm...hanging out with Peyton every other second, YES, no doubt about that...Peyton was disguised though, as a concerned "friend", just trying to "help" Lucas (the guy who she secretly loves, but is IN LOVE with her ex-best friend, whom she just confessed to loving Lucas to, which is the reason why they are ex-best friends now...and hahaha jk. I had to though. You know how I feel about that ridiculous chapter in the BLP triange!

In oth history is just one couple who deserve 5 stars and trust me...this couple is not leyton ...

reallovealwaysbl,

the only thing I'll do is come to mark's defense about leyton. Yes, Mark depicted leyton's epic love story in his own way. In a very astute way that clearly wouldn't please everyone. As you said - it all comes down to preference. But when you started saying that mark should have depicted leyton's epic love story better, it started sounding like you were stating a "fact" and not your opinion. So to clarify, it was your opinion right? Cause the way I (an obvious leyton fan) saw it, Mark put two star crossed lovers together - star crossed lovers who were total wrecks. Look at the history - what both of them went through in their childhood - so their epic love story was to be far from pure & noble -especially when love triangles came into the mix. I'm not sure if you ever read my article that depicts my view of lucas' persona (and one day I will write one about peyton), but those two [as you know] were a mess. So the cheating, the love/hate emotions, the confusion, the hiding, was the two of them growing; learning - showing their dark sides above and in between - sometimes too often for some fans to bare. Every other character may not have cheated like leyton did, but they've dabbled into their dark habits that they needed to fight as well. Each character has gotten his/her hands dirty BIG time. Even up to this season. They're all still learning.
Leyton has done selfish things, yes, I will not deny that. But they are not selfish people. Don't forget all the selflLESS things they've done for their friends. Just think back. Every season I could give you at least one example if not multiple ones. How they've affected each character in a positive, selfless way. They are deeply flawed and are at their worst when they try to deny their feelings. Clearly mark did something right cause he literally tore the OTH fanbase in half. Half the fanbase doesn't like brucas (give or take - I know some fans like both) and the other half doesn't like leyton. In other words, half of us see the appeal and fell in love with the way mark developed leyton's story - and half of us saw the energy, connection and love that mark unfolded in brucas' story. So we'll leave it at that.

I'm just gonna pop in and say in response to roxylovesbrucas' last comment--that it all comes down to what your own opinion is. You can't say that there is only one couple that deserves 5 stars and Leyton isn't it, because people (LIKE ME) happen to think that Leyton is that couple. As a matter of fact, i think that they are 100000000000000 stars. It all depends on what your own opinion is, so you can't really say things like 'TRUST ME Leyton isn't that couple', because to some, that's exactly what they are.

to me Leyton is that couple too. they deserve 1000000000+ stars as far as i'm concerned. sure their history, and storyline, and how they managed to come together is far from a traditional epic love story... but to me that's what makes them so great. they are far from traditional. they are a one of a kind couple, and that's why i love them. they've been down a rocky road, both individually and together. but their emotional connection and attachment to eachother are absolutely undeniable. they are just amazing :)

abs is so awesome when she debates...i love it...and abs that article you wrote on luke's persona was awesome to say the least...i loved it!

I agree with both of you! and abs too. =)

haha that rhymes.

lol roxy. you just made yourself sound really ridiculous. not to mention you've just impeded the brucas fans' integrity when it comes to producing valid civil arguments in brucas' favor. All you did was throw a fit - you're not helping yourself or your brucas argument (and I use the term "argument" lightly cause that was hardly an argument - it was basically you kicking and screaming). I feel sorry for you and the brucas' fanbase cause you've just embarrassed the lot of em'.

and thanks for the compliments leyton4ever :)

well i guess we know what happens when you don't have anymore evidence to back your couple up with... you make immature, pointless, pathetic comments like that one (roxylovesbrucas) lol. it must be hard to not have anything better to say to defend your couple other than "leyton sucks". i dont really understand what the point of that post was, other than to make yourself sound really dumb lol. because i'll tell you one thing, it sure didn't defend Brucas in anyway, or give any valid reasons why Leyton aren't a good couple. but if it makes you feel better... then go around yelling "leyton sucks" all day long, because i'm sure that will bring Brucas back...



....not lol

hii..just popping in to say hi..

oh and yeah..this other day im asking myself: every1 from mark to sophia says brucas is dun leyton's epic..y cant i accept brucas is over?
the reason - season 5 all those brucas scenes..all brucas scenes which make u go like ..oh that's not JUST friendship..that's sumthing more than friendship...there r so many unanswered questions when it cums to brucas..Y was Brooke there when lucas's dream came tru (his book was released s5e5)..y did they kiss (a kiss always means sumthing!) y all that pretend engagement fiasco?? i mean haley lucas wud never hav such a scene - y brucas if they are OVER? Brooke luke & angie scenes...


season 6: the old man mentioning its destiny that makes the choice in reply to luke saying he made his choice ?? peyton's expression in s6 when luke told her it isnt the comet being filmed its the ravens (half abt brooke) ?? these may not be big things but put all together they all sum up to this mysterious SUMTHING there that we arent aware of...y did nathan mention brooke being other half? y the mention to luke being brooke's type (s6e16)??

its like u luk at them..even now in the few s6 scenes they hav..and u go like..there's def. SUMTHING there..dunno wht..but sumthing...and like the other BLers said..that SUMTHING is wht our hopes depend on..those Why's..Those Kodak Moments (Perfect Family luke/brooke/angie sleeping on couch)...

Nywayz...thats all i gotta say..my thought of the week...that for sum reason there's this SUMTHING still there in Brucas scenes that r too small to take note of but thought of together they put this WHY in our minds..Hope that Sumthing is adressed:)

dats it for now i'll check back later to see ur replies:)

there is a very very easy answer to that question. all of those little "things" regarding Brucas were thrown into the show, because Mark has said many times that he doesn't want to alienate the Brucas fanbase. even though Mark clearly wants Leyton to be endgame, he has to give Brucas fans SOMETHING. he has said before that he knows that totally ignoring the Brucas fanbase would be dangerous, and he doesnt want to do that. those little references to Brucas were thrown into the show to throw Brucas fans a bone, and to atleast give them SOME Brucas (even if they aren't a couple).

plus, not to mention that all of that stuff from season 5... was also to lead up to the finale, when Brooke was supposedly (and randomly i might add) a candidate for proposal. Mark made her a candidate to include Brucas fans in the drama... and her being an option for proposal wouldnt have made any sense, if Brucas didn't have any connection throughout the season. so that is why Brucas was so close throughout season 5... because Mark still wants to give Brucas fans SOMETHING, and because otherwise, Brooke being an option for proposal wouldnt have made any sense! (even though it still didnt make sense to me in the end... but whatever) lol

i think leyton belong together guys brucas is over move on they are just friends.when he was with brooke he always wanted peyton.the are good friends that's it

Leyton vs. Brucas is such a debate, but it's very interesting to hear people's opinions. I love both couples, but I prefer Leyton. I think that they are meant to be. In fact, even Brooke has said that Leyton was meant to me. Sorry Brucas fans, but it's not going to happen. No disrespect.

i have not read most of the replies to this topic, but i know that most of what i would have to say has already been said (about why i am a brucas fan, and why i am not a leyton fan....and how my opinions about both couples have nothing to do with each other- they are completely separate). so i hope what i am going to add isn't repeating what some else said.
but one thing that i think is often misunderstood about brucas fans is when brucas fans say that they love brucas because of their chemistry. while i may not be able to speak for everyone, i know that the brucas fans i know feel the same way as me.... there is a difference between sexual chemistry and simply just chemistry. i think what brucas has that is amazing is chemistry...they have sexual chemistry as well, but that's not even close to a main reason why i like them together.
chemistry is the thing that draws you to a person...i have great chemistry with many of my friends and it is definitely NOT sexual chemistry between us. have you ever had a guy or girl (whichever sex you are attracted to) be so amazing, and adore you, and you know they would make a great partner and treat you so well, and he or she is sweet, and good looking....but you just don't feel anything when you are with him or her? it's because you're lacking the chemistry with the person. when you have chemistry with someone...there are sparks! and when this chemistry is between 2 people who are attracted to each other...you think about the person day and night, you get butterflies when their name is mentioned, and you are consumed by the thought of them. but most of all- you're just drawn to them. it's not really something you can describe well with words, it's only something you can feel. part of what makes acting so difficult is being able to click so well with another actor and convince the audience that this chemistry exists.
i think that hilarie burton and sophia bush have amazing chemistry together....and that's why so many people (IMO) are breyton fans. if you look at their storylines and their actions...they really aren't always such great friends to each other. but they have such great chemistry that so many people are drawn in to their friendship and adore them. i think the same thing goes for brucas. the reason i love brucas is not because brooke treats lucas so amazingly well and lucas treats brooke so amazingly well...it's because of the way they look at each other, because of the sparks on screen, because i feel like i can't draw my eyes away from the television screen when they are in a scene together. it's something that directors, writers, and creators of shows dream that their actors will have- but it can be very difficult to find. i don't love brucas because they are the kind of love that can prevail no matter the circumstances....i love brucas because they are the kind of love that makes my heart skip a beat when i see them together because their chemistry is so strong that i can feel it and i myself get excited. i think that if OTH was a novel and not a television show...I would probably be a leyton and brucas fan...or maybe even just a leyton fan. but it's not a novel- it's a television show which requires visual stimulation as well as oral stimulation. it's about the words they say, as well as the way they act. i think it is really such a waste to not have brooke and lucas together. i think that it is so rare to find that sort of chemistry between two characters/two actors and to see that chemistry just thrown away and replaced with a couple that I BELIEVE is extremely lacking in the chemistry department (and once again im reminding you i am not talking about sexual chemistry, im talking about overall chemistry)- it's such a shame.

there are many more reasons why i love brooke and lucas as a couple....and i have many reasons why i do not like peyton and lucas as a couple....but i have a feeling they were probably said at some point in the 267 replies before me- and mentioning them again would be pointless since it would probably just offend people.

lol as much as I love you for not being a Leyton fan, you are crossing the line. I guess this will be our first and last encounter with you. So Hi/Bye. lol

^^ good work brattynemz^^^

Wow leyton_suck. Get a life.

we'll see how long you last here "leyton_suck"...

Hello all,
I found this discussion going on and I felt compelled to register and offer up my 2 cents......

I've watched OTH from its start and at first I was really digging the leyton interaction. The writers/Markyboy certainly set it up well enough and so it was natural and easy to see Lucass and Peyton together. That is how it was set up initally, but when the opportunity for them to actually be together, Peyton wasn't ready for that type of relationship or rather I should say the type of relationship Lucass wanted and expected. That right there was a defining moment which seems to be what has played out in the five plus seasons we have seen. Whenever Lucass was ready, Peyton for whatever reason wasn't and vice versa.
Instead what we saw was the development of Brucas in the latter part of season 1 through the start of season 4. To say that Lucass and Brooke shared an incredible chemistry is an understatement. The two started out bonding over the night that they both were taking care of Peyton and continued building from that point on. The spark these two actors shared jumped off the screen and into our hearts. I believe that love between two people make each other grow in a positive way and you see that almost from the very start. Lucass giving Brooke a book to read, which was in my opinion a way for Brooke to understand Lucass in a deeper sense than just a casual high school hook up. And then Brooke's taking Lucass out on their very first real date and getting him to let go of much of the inhibitions that he, to that point used to keep himself hidden to everyone This was Brooke's attempt to let Lucass have a peek into her soul. He was Broody and she was Cheery. Nicknames they gave each other....almost opposites really, yet somehow they just fit right. They brought each other out the things they both held deep within themselves. They made each other less afraid. Less afraid and willing to expose only to each other, what was really within. All of this had nothing to do with sex....no far from it. It was a growth each of them experienced because of their willingness to lower their defenses and trust each other so that they could share something much more meaningful than the casual hook ups that Brooke only allowed in her prior relationships and what Peyton was only willing to offer Lucass.

The choice was rather easy for Lucass. He even admitted as much when questioned why Brooke and not Peyton?

Real love is not selfish.

Real love makes a person want what's best for the other.

That is what Brucas has displayed mostly through-out the series.

Brooke like Peyton was loaded with insecurities....and yet she still took the chance. How was that trust repaid? Well, by her best friend going behind her back and going after Lucass. I am NOT mitigating Lucass' blame/responsibility in this whatsoever because he too must share blame for his deceit. The point here is that true love can not....I repeat CAN NOT be borne out of deceit. Not the type of so-called "Soul Mate" love that we are being fed by Markyboy and his band of writing hacks. If you guys can not see that then I really am sorry.
Cheating is SELFISH. Love on the other hand is quite the opposite. True love is giving of oneself no matter the outcome. The type of "love" depicted by leyton is an immature kind of love. Immature love does not last and never can because the foundation upon which it is built is faulty.

Of the two couples, who is it that has sacrificed themself out of love? Who gives and gives even if it hurts them because it is what they think the other wants?

Brooke sacifices her love for Lucass because she feels that is what Lucass wants(Peyton)so she is willing to put her love aside so that the one person as she said, "she would have given it all up for" is happy. Unselfish. Doing something for someone else...even if it means breaking your own heart in doing so.

I know what Markboy has said....that Pucas was destined yet the way he wrote the story really does not back his assertion. Also his unhealthy preoccuption with Peyton appears on the outside to be well, for lack of a better word....creepy. Since when does the creator of a story interject himself into that story? And it is only to interact with one person? That is why I find it so strange.

Unfortunately, I find that I will have to continue this later....I have things I must attend to for work.
Thanks to everyone here....it's nice to find a site where we can debate things without the namecalling and such that happens all too often at other places.

N.Y.JOEY

Well i actually dont mind Brucas but prefer Leyton.. and although Brucas had their cute moments in season 2 & 3, they havent dated for years and it would be so ridiculous if Brucas got back together. Lucas wrote two freaking books about Peyton and they are getting married and having a baby.. i think Leyton have meant to be since the pilot.

I have been a true leyton fan since day 1! I think what I loved about them is that their love can never be forgotten by either of them. Hence, "It's always gonna be there isn't it." I love everything about them and think that, although Brucas is cute and stuff, Leyton just makes more sense! They have been destined 2 be 2getehr since the pilot! True Love prevails...and Leyton proves that!!

I think the the fact that I like Leyton so much is that the first episode I watched was the state championship, but I have watched the other episodes and I still prefer Leyton, even though Brucas was a great couple.

Once I started watching the show was immediately fell in love with LEYTON! They are the most amazing couple ever!!! Their scenes and love are epic, just watch the first seasonn!!!!!It is SO clear they are made for eachother!! Brucas was a cute couple but nothing compares 2 LEYTON!!

LEYTON!!!!

reasons why brucas is better than leyton imo :

1- in season 1 lucas Wanted Peyton and even though brooke forced herself to him in the beginning and their relationship was all sexual ... He Chose to be with her later in season 2 while he had the chance to be with peyton

2- lucas and peyton have so many things in common which makes it easy for them to connect and talk and all .. brooke and lucas had like zero in common and they fell in love anyway

3- in season 3 .. lucas and rachel's date.. she tells him if brooke's the one he can shoot the ball in the basket blindfolded and guess what ? :) the ball goes in !

4- he tells brooke that he wanted to be with HER NOT PEYTON constantly in season 3 (especially the rain scene)

5- in season 6,it was implied thay peyton was the queen of hearts .. but we all know that brooke is much more the queen of hearts (she even mentions it in season 2 on the dare night with felix) and red is her color (same as the queen of hearts) : brooke davis drink , halloween costume, the part at nathan's, naley's wedding dress, the crab thing, and she says that she alwasy looks good in red...also gus said that love finds him and in the dream ... it's brooke finding lucas not peyton while she was holdin Red Roses (which the queen of hearts is famous for it) and when gus told him he didnt have a choice and that he doesnt find love.. it was like he was tryin to convince him that peyton wasnt the one and she seemed the best choice because she showed up! brooke would never say yes and hurt her friend

i just hope for a brucas endgame.. that all these images will float in his head and he will realise that it's always been brooke his queen of hearts!!

<3 Brucas <3

i was reading ALL the previous posts!! and i had so much to say!! and i only wrote those but i hated mark for showing us brucas and this huge immensity of their love and then ending it just like that!!
it didnt seem right to me ... brucas was beyond anything i have ever seen and i think if it wasnt for chophia there would still be brucas! but too bad that brooke signed a contract to not have any love scenes with luke !

and i also think that mark tries sooo hard to make leyton seem epic and meant to be and whatever that it makes their relaitonship seem forced and desperate and there's the lack of chemistry too.

the reason that i love brucas is that umm... i used to believe in love at first sight but with BL/LP i realised that love is a process and it takes time to fall in love .. time to actually be together, fight for each other, go through hell together ! and that what brucas was really about.

concerning leyton storyline it doesnt seem right: he liked her, he had her, she didnt want him anymore, she wanted him when he was with her best friend, he got her, she, then, decided to wait and not hurt her best friend(even after cheating with bf), he was single she didnt want him , he fell IN LOVE with brooke, she then decided to want him, and when brooke dumped him, she still didnt tell him how she felt, when she told him how she felt he said "Oh!", they were together, he proposed she said "sometime", he left her, she moved on with julian and he moved on with lindsey, when she saw him with lindsey, she regretted her decision even after 3 YEARS of not talking to each other she still "loved" him, he said "I Do" to someone else, then he tells her he hates her (drnuk but still it meant something), he moves on and proposes to her on THE PHONE from he AIRPORT and she says yes !!

i mean what kind of an " epic love story" is that? it's just words in books, nothing actual, nothing real!plus, now i remembered something, in s5, haley asks peyton whether she's in love with Lucas or the idea of lucas, and peyton says "a Little Bit Of Both" and she couldnt quit a crappy mail job for him while brooke says"lucas scott might be the only boy i'd lose everything for" ( i forgot the exact words:P)

come on guys .. looking forward to deabting :P

^^okay sisi3191... i'll gladly address some of your points :)

1) "in season 1 lucas Wanted Peyton and even though brooke forced herself to him in the beginning and their relationship was all sexual ... He Chose to be with her later in season 2 while he had the chance to be with peyton "

-- in season 2, Lucas DIDNT KNOW that he had the chance to be with Peyton. He had already given it a shot with Peyton twice, and both times (as you said yourself), Peyton turned him down, and said that she couldn't hurt Brooke that way. So why would Lucas think that Peyton would give him another chance, and would suddenly be willing to hurt Brooke? if she didn't want to hurt Brooke in season 1, Lucas had no reason to think that Peyton would want to hurt Brooke in season 2. He was with Brooke because Peyton made it clear that they COULDNT be together

2) "lucas and peyton have so many things in common which makes it easy for them to connect and talk and all .. brooke and lucas had like zero in common and they fell in love anyway"

-- sure Lucas and Brooke fell in love anyway, despite of their differences... but their differences and Leyton's similarities also played a BIG part in Brooke's insecurities in her relationship with Lucas. Lucas and Peyton KNEW who eachother were (for example... Lucas comment to Peyton this season "i always knew you"), they were able to let eachother all the way in... unlike Brucas. they have that deeper connection beyond just the romantic connection... they have the friendship connection too

3) "in season 3 .. lucas and rachel's date.. she tells him if brooke's the one he can shoot the ball in the basket blindfolded and guess what ? :) the ball goes in!"

-- who in the world is Rachel to garauntee that that basketball shot meant something? lol i'm sorry but i don't quite see what the big deal of that shot is. Rachel isn't the queen of the universe that can garauntee fate. a basketball shot brought up by Rachel isnt enough of a leg to stand on as far as Brucas being meant to be

4) "he tells brooke that he wanted to be with HER NOT PEYTON constantly in season 3 (especially the rain scene)"

-- again, he said that stuff NOT KNOWING that he had a chance with Peyton. but even aside from that fact, this is all still stuff that he said back in high school. things change. just because he said this stuff to Brooke in high school, doesnt mean that he is going to feel that way for the rest of his life. and if you want to base opinions off of what Lucas has said to girls... he has also said PLENTY of times that PEYTON is the one that he wants to be with (for example... ALL of season 1 he told Peyton that "he HAS to be with her", "he feels it in his heart", "Brooke is great, but she's NOT you", also the MULTIPLE proposals to her, and the two books about his love for her). Brooke isnt the only girl that Lucas has ever said that he wanted to be with. nothing that he has ever said to Brooke really stands out or overshadows anything that Lucas said to Peyton.. or even Lindsey for that matter. plus he had his chance in season 6 to pick Brooke at the airport over Peyton, but he didn't. so obviously his feelings have CHANGED, and he wants to be with Peyton now... not Brooke.

5) "in season 6,it was implied thay peyton was the queen of hearts .. but we all know that brooke is much more the queen of hearts (she even mentions it in season 2 on the dare night with felix) and red is her color (same as the queen of hearts) : brooke davis drink , halloween costume, the part at nathan's, naley's wedding dress, the crab thing, and she says that she alwasy looks good in red...also gus said that love finds him and in the dream ... it's brooke finding lucas not peyton while she was holdin Red Roses (which the queen of hearts is famous for it)"

-- honestly? Brooke is the queen of hearts just because hearts are red, and Brooke wears red a lot? the queen of hearts is PEYTON, because he CHOSE PEYTON. you can't just say that the queen of hearts is really Brooke based off of your own opinions. when in REALITY, the queen of hearts is whoever he chose... which is Peyton. you cant just claim that the show is wrong lol. you may disagree with the show... but its not going to change the facts... that the queen of hearts is really Peyton

bottom line is that sure... Lucas loved Brooke once. but in real life, most people love more than one person. just because Lucas loved Brooke in high school doesn't mean that he is going to end up with her. most high school relationships dont last a life time. sure Leyton's relationship will... but that is part of what makes them epic. their love that they had in high school was actually strong enough to make it PAST high school... unlike Brucas' love, which couldn't survive past seasons 3-4. Brucas once had something real, but Lucas has ALSO had something real with other girls too. as i said before, yes once apon a time Lucas did say some meaningful things to Brooke. BUT anything that Lucas has once said to Brooke... he has also said something EQUALLY meaningful to Peyton... if not more meaningful

i really liked this forum... we actually talk instead of voting and doing stupid polls... anyways, that's what i think:

1- "in season 2, Lucas DIDNT KNOW that he had the chance to be with Peyton.....He was with Brooke because Peyton made it clear that they COULDNT be together"

how can u even say that ? i really do respect u and the way u defend leyton but that makes NO SENSE at all !!
he wasnt thinkin of peyton at that time, or else we could've seen it or sensed it, there were 0 leyton scenes... and may i remind u season 2 finale "i wanna be with you brooke-lucas what about peyton's stuff-brooke / i keep those stuff as a reminder of how i messed things up with you and if i ever get a second i would never let you again- lucas.... yeah u know u're right... he wanted to be with peyton when he said that to BROOKE
and how can he not know he had the chance to be with peyton ? breyton was okay... they were all friends and brooke even had felix!!

2-"they have that deeper connection beyond just the romantic connection... they have the friendship connection too"

i so agree with you on that one ! they have a very deep connection b/c they are alike ... they are like soulmates (definition=These are people that we encounter through their life.these are usually friends, very close ones or a person whom you really click with )
they listen to the same music, they think alike but they have 0 romantic chemistry! to me, they go better, so much better as friends, cause as lucas said:he's always cared about peyton, but he's in love with brooke!
and yes brooke was insecure, the first time cause she knew about leyton's similarities but the second time because she was afraid to get hurt all over again and that has nothing to do with their differences

3-"who in the world is Rachel to garauntee that that basketball shot meant something? lol i'm sorry but i don't quite see what the big deal of that shot is. Rachel isn't the queen of the universe that can garauntee fate. a basketball shot brought up by Rachel isnt enough of a leg to stand on as far as Brucas being meant to be"

that is so not the point, it's not about rachel, it's about the concept, this scene meant something, mark wouldn't stick in the show for no reason whatsoever.. to me everytime i watch that scene i'm hopeful again... that's when i was convinced that brucas is meant to be !
i dont mean to be disrespectful or anything but that was not a very good response, it's not a valid argument! i wasnt talkin about rachel, i was talkin about fate! and rachel has nothing to do with it

4-", this is all still stuff that he said back in high school. things change. just because he said this stuff to Brooke in high school, doesnt mean that he is going to feel that way for the rest of his life. .....plus he had his chance in season 6 to pick Brooke at the airport over Peyton, but he didn't."

u are so contradicting urself... u guys keep talkin about season 1 how lucas wanted to be with peyton and the famous lines "i'll be seeing u" and "i have to be with u" and whatever.. i know that and i admit he WANTED peyton... but u wont admit that he said those stuff to brooke too in seasons2/3... and both were in HS....
if what lucas said to brooke meant nothing and what he said to peyton meant nothing too... and u're right if he "loved" peyton in hs, it doesnt mean he'll love her forever ( based on what you wrote)
and concerning the airport.... OF COURSE HE DIDNT CHOSE BROOKE !!! he cant choose her, b/c she cant say yes while her best friend is pining over him ... he'll get his heart broken again ! i knew it was peyton cz she's the one who would show up nothing more and she's the one who won't reject him anymore, she was the least likely to say no (i.e. i have this dream when we're in my hotel room in LA and u proposed to me and everytime i say yes... it's my dream...)

5- sorry but u're wrong... brooke is the queen of hearts as mentioned in season 2! lucas chose the right card (queen of hearts) in the dream WITH BROOKE, which obviously implies that he made the right choice with brooke ! but in reality he chose peyton and the queen of hearts fell down... i dunno ... maybe im wrong about this but that's what i think ... when the card fell , i thought it was the wrong choice... idk how to interpret it... i hope u get me

but i wasnt really convinced with their story, their "love", i think it was more lust, peyton only wanted sex in season 1 and she didnt want to have a real relationship with lucas, and after they almost slept together at the motel, he decided that he has to be with her, to me that's only lust talkin ! and in season 4, he never thought of having a relationship with peyton, until she told him "i love you",i think he was in love with the idea of peyton , the girl he always had a crush on and he can finally have her !
anw, that's just me... but BRUCAS FOREVER !!!! <3

Kellyerin87, you hit the nail right on the head with your last response! After reading sisi3191's comments, you siad exactly what my reply would have been. Obviously leyton fans and brucas fans are never going to agree on this topic... Because we all interpret the show and our couples differently. But at the end of the day... The couple that makes the most sense is going to end up together, and clearly mark and the rest of the staff thought that couple was leyton... As do I! Leyton rock, and their love lasted for a reason! GO LEYTON!

lol:P that's it? that's all you have to say ? u're not gonna reply to my last post ?:P i was really lookin forward to debating:P
BRUCAS FOREVER !

lol i've already replied to your post... all you did in your second post is repeat what you said in your first one... and i've already replied to that. your second post was just you repeating the exact same stuff. you seem to not only be convinced that i'm wrong, but that THE SHOW is wrong too... so what could i possibly say in response to that lol? ofcourse you think i'm wrong, just like i think you're wrong. clearly you interpreted the show one way, and i (and other Leyton fans) interpreted it another way. if you bring up some new points for me to respond to... then i'll do that. but you're just repeating your same opinions over and over... that you have already heard my responses to. i'm not going to keep just repeating myself back and forth lol

Kellyerin87, I totally agree with your responses about how we will never agree on this and stuff. There is just one thing I have to say to make a point why Leyton is meant to be:
A big Brucas line is "People that are meant to be always find their way"
and brucas fans obvi. think its emant for brucas because Brooke said it to Lucas. However, when she does say that in that episode, i am not sure the exact number, it is when Lucas realizes he HAS to be with Peyton and they start their "cheating". And when brooke says it to Lucas, he has a look on his face seeming like he is thinking of something or someone else; Peyton. Idk, I have just always thought that when Brooke said it to him he was thinking about Peyton.

Honeslty, i think we should just move on already. We're in S6 and we're still debating about the past seasons. What happened, happened already, there is no point in debating about it now. Brucas fans have their opinion on why BL should have/could have been together and we leyton fans have our opinion on why LP should stay toegther, let's just leave it at that.

trueLEYTONlove... i totally agree about the "people who are meant to be together always find their way in the end" comment... that line was totally referring to Leyton! i've never understood how anyone could possibly think that line was talking about Brucas... Lucas didnt even want Brooke then. he was convinced that him and Peyton needed to be together

but the main reason i say that it is a Leyton quote is because of MARK. Mark has said many times that LEYTON is the couple that are soulmates, and that "since the pilot they have created a world where Lucas and PEYTON are meant to be". and Mark is ALSO the one that made Brooke say that line. so if the actual writer of that line thinks that Leyton is the couple that is meant to be (which he clearly does)... then do the math. that quote was about Leyton.

...and clearly Mark kept his word, and they did find their way in the end :)

^^^ yeah that word is for leyton but i think maybe osme brucas fans might thing that is for brucas because it was said with brucas
i mean brooke and lucas were together when they said it i don't think it it brucas but maybe that it is

sure Brooke and Lucas were together... but Brooke wasn't the one that Lucas really wanted. i think that quote matched Leyton during that time perfectly. the last part of the quote where it says "...always find their way in the END" says it all. it was implying that Lucas and Peyton are meant to be, and that just because they weren't together then... that didnt matter... because they would eventually find their way in the end. and they did. i mean i can see why Brucas fans would like to think it was about Brucas, since technically it was said between Brucas. but i think the actual words, and Lucas' actions at the time speak for themselves as far as it being a Leyton quote

no actually .. im a brucas fan and i admit when brooke said it at that time, we all knew it was about leyton! but things change and we still dont know what's gonna happen in the END kellyrin...both couples could be endgame..i just hope its brucas, they're so cute and funny to watch!

lol well i guess anything COULD still happen... but considering that Leyton DO actually get married, and they DO have the baby... i think its safe to say that the chances of Leyton being endgame are almost certain :)

mark my words:

BRUCAS WILL NOT BE ENDGAME!

im sorry, i understand that BL fans like to have hope or whatever... but there comes a point where you just gotta face the facts. we know from spoilers that leyton get married and have a baby girl. for lucas to actually go back to brooke after everything he has been through with peyton over the past couple of seasons would just be absolutely absurd. not only would lucas NEVER go back to brooke, but brooke herself would NEVER take him back. lucas and peyton are in way too deep for brucas to ever happen again. this isnt high school anymore... he cant just keep going back and forth between 2 best friends forever. hes MARRYING peyton and having a BABY with her. they're starting a family. what makes anyone think that brooke would honestly get back with lucas after that? or that lucas would even want brooke after that?

i dont mean to burst anyones bubble or anything, i just think its time that we face the facts and stop living in the past and being in denial about where lucas is TODAY in terms of his relationships and romantic feelings. its him and peyton now. yes he had feelings for brooke once, but that ended in high school and we havent seen a SINGLE thing that has suggested that he still has romantic feelings for her, or that he would ever have feelings for her in the future. its time to move on. leyton is clearly endgame. period.

hey guyss! Yeah, so I do think that the quote was reffering to Leyton and I also hope Leyton is END GAMEE!! Like TheBotSawAComet said...they have been through so much together even if Peyton doesnt come bk..lucas has declared so many times if the past couples episodes that he can;t live his life without Peyton, etc. Season 6 has basically been about their epic love lol. But yeah, I just pray Leyton is endgame

totally agree TheBoySawAComet! as much as i dont want to squash Brucas fans' hope... i think we all know that it's pretty clear that Leyton is endgame. ever since Brucas broke up in seasons 3/4... their romantic feelings for eachother have just been put further and further into the past with each passing episode. Brucas has been over for a while now, and that just keeps being confirmed with every episode that airs. every new episode continues to be about LEYTONS love, not Brucas' love.

Brucas is in the past, and Lucas is starting his life with Peyton now... and that is where he WANTS to be. he has said himself numerous times that he can't live without her. and Brooke has said numerous times that she does NOT love Lucas anymore, and that Lucas and PEYTON are the ones that are meant to be. why would Brooke ever go back to Lucas after acknowledging countless times that he is meant to be with Peyton? Brooke doesn't want Lucas, and Lucas doesn't want Brooke. they're over, and we all know it. GO LEYTON!

maybe you're right guys ... maybe leyton is endgame, but u cant say they DON'T LOVE each other anymore... u never forget ur fist love and in season 5 finale may i remind u the " i do love u lucas scott"/"i love u too brooke davis" ?
anything can still happen and we brucas fans are not losing hope and giving up on brucas cause they are a couple that fought for each other, struggled together and fell in love with each other..they showed us what true love is: sacrifice, will, being there, ...
they were beyond anything i have ever seen! and im hoping we see more brucas !

sisi3191, Brucas may still love eachother as FRIENDS... but us Leyton fans CAN say that they are not IN LOVE with eachother. i'm sorry but there is no way that anyone can honestly say that Brooke and Lucas are in love with eachother still.... it has been made perfectly clear that they are not. if Lucas was in love with Brooke, he would have called her at the airport in the season 6 premiere. but he didn't, he called Peyton. and if Brooke was still in love with Lucas, she wouldn't have told Julian that she doesn't still love him, and she wouldn't be Leyton's #1 cheerleader, like she is. and sure you may never forget your first love... but that doesn't mean that you are always IN LOVE with your first love... there's a difference. they love eachother, but they are not in love.

kellyrin, i never said they were still IN LOVE, u said they dont love each other anymore i replied to your post and said they do...
anyways guys... i think brucas would always be better than leyton even though they might be over and leyton is endgame as mark said... but i think he shouldnt have showed us this huge love between brooke and lucas during s2/3 and then pretending they were not made for each other and brooke was only an obstacle between lucas and peyton like lindsay. i strongly believe if it werent for chophia divorce brucas would still be together!

that was what i meant though when i said that... that they arent IN LOVE with eachother. obviously they love eachother as friends. i would never imply that they dont love eachother in that way, because obviously they do (even though they barely even have a friendship this season).

and as far as Mark "pretending that Brucas are not made for eachother"... i dont really get what you mean by that. Brucas dated in high school, not everyone that dates in high school is meant for eachother. Maybe Mark isn't "pretending"... maybe Brucas really just ISNT made for eachother like you want them to be. lots of high school couples think that their love is SO strong when they are that young... but then later down the road, they realize (after being in love with someone else and comparing the different relationships) that their love with that previous person wasn't really as strong as they thought it was, and that they are meant to be with this new person because their love with that person is SO much stronger. which is exactly what happened, Lucas and Brooke both know that there is no comparisson between the love that Brucas had, and the love that Leyton have.

clearly the love between Brucas didn't last, so sure they aren't going to look back on their relationship with as much enthusiasm as you would like... because they know the outcome of it. they know that their love faded, and that they weren't meant to be together. there is no point in continuing to talk about how great their love was in high school when its like 6 years later, and they have both moved on since, and Lucas is ENGAGED and starting a family with someone else. the past is the past, there is no need to talk about it forever. there comes a point where you just have to accept that you are not meant to be with someone, and move on, and let the past be the past. and Lucas and Brooke have DEFINITELY reached that point.

and as far as the "chophia" divorce goes.... i could not disagree more. i'm sorry, but that idea that Mark would honestly base the outcome of his show around the actor's personal lives is ridiculous to me. he has made it clear that he has known he wanted Leyton since day 1... the actors personal relationships arent going to change Marks mind about his vision for his SHOW. it's a fictional tv show... its not based on real life. he may have made Brucas split SOONER than expected to make Chad and Sophia more comfortable... but there is no way that he honestly would have ended Brucas together, even if Chad and Sophia had stayed married. them being married wouldnt change the fact that their CHARACTERS in the show weren't meant to be together. i think people tend to confuse Chad and Sophia with Brooke and Lucas, because i honestly have NO idea how anyone could possibly think that BROOKE and LUCAS are supposed to be together. anyway... Mark has said numerous times that Leyton is the couple that is meant to be, and that he has wanted them since the pilot. Chad and Sophia's personal lives outside of the show would not affect Mark's feelings towards Leyton at all. Mark knows and apparently has always known that Leyton is the couple he wants in the end. Chad and Sophia have nothing to do with Lucas and Peyton. that just doesn't make any sense lol

...sorry for the rant!

ok so u're repeating exactly hat u said before ... and i replied .. i just wanna reply to the last paragraph about basing the outcome of the show around the actor's personal lives...
i disagree with you... sophia signed a contract basically saying that she doesnt want any scenes with chad especially love scenes so that's why there weren't any brucas scenes in season 4 ... and stuff like that happened A LOT... in Alias, they killed off michael vartan's character cause jennifer garner broke up with him and got married to ben affleck, in Grey's anatomy, burke left christina at the altar and left the hospital cause the actor offended a fellow actor...
and one last thing i am so not saying that brucas would've been endgame... any couple could've been endgame...
sorry for takin so long to reply.. just busy with exams and school and stuff!