French Поцелуи without consent is rape!

Ok, so I recently starting studying law and we were discussing a case which I think is interesting to discuss here.

This verdict upheld in the highest court in the Netherlands, 'De Hoge Raad' (High Counsel), so it is not something to be taken lightly. Jurisprudence is an important Источник of law in the Netherlands.

The case:

Person A kisses person B, against B's wishes. Person A is then charged with rape.

According to our law, any form of entering the body sexually is rape (with force and/or without consent), so the court rules that by french Поцелуи person A had indeed sexually entered person B's body and was thus guilty of rape. He was sentenced to 24 months in prison.

What are your thoughts? Justified? или going a bit too far?
 Sappp posted Больше года
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Cinders said:
I don't know anything about Dutch или New Zeleand law, and can only speak for the United States, but... is there no distinction in these countries between rape and generalized sexual assault? Because I see this as the latter еще than the former.

In American law, sexual assault pretty much covers anything short of penetration. This includes everything from a man groping a woman on the subway, to forcing a woman's hand down your pants. Also, french Поцелуи without consent.

Our laws are very specific and gender ambiguous (most of the time). They vary from state to state, but for the most part they define rape as unwanted penetration of или by genitals - which means anything inserted into the rectum или vagina, или the unwanted insertion of a penis into... something. This last law covers a male rapist forceably inserting his penis into his victim's mouth. The first one - forceable insertion into genitals - doesn't always specify who is doing the insertion, which covers cases in which men are coerced или drugged into having sex against their will (yes, it does happen). All your bases.

But, as I said, anything less than that is, legally speaking, considered sexual assault. Though still a highly serious crime, it is not as severe a charge as rape. So if this were in the jurisdiction of the United States, that's how it would have been classified. If a DA tried to persecute it as rape, he would have lost.

And I think it should be like that. Rape is serious. So is sexual assault. But let's not muddy the waters. или else, the girl who cried rape will replace the "cry wolf" parable.
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posted Больше года 
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In the Netherlands there is a distinction between rape and sexual assault, but in this case the court rules that since the body of person B was 'entered' it fell under rape, not sexual assault.
Sappp posted Больше года
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The court interpreted the law 'grammatically'- exactly what was put in the law. They also could've said: the law was put like this to include rape with things like dildo's, not so that french Поцелуи will fall under rape and acquited the guy.
Sappp posted Больше года
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@Sapp, indeed there are quirks in many laws
coriann posted Больше года
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@Cinders XD i agree with Ты
coriann posted Больше года
misanthrope86 said:
дана the way NZ law is written, I'm pretty sure a rape charge wouldn't stick. We do have charges for oral rape, but the wording is such that it describes mouths/tongues in contact with genitals specifically. I'm not sure if Ты would successfully be able to argue for this under NZ law. But I don't know enough about the specifics of the legal system to make a proper guess.

I don't, however, disagree with this case. The act was still a sexual violation. I think this kind of thing (unwanted kissing) is actually much еще common than we think because women probably just wouldn't think to Сообщить it. Almost like it is an accepted part of being a woman that Ты will at some point be kissed in way Ты do not want. So I think the charge is justified.
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posted Больше года 
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i disagree, the men who Kiss women may not always wish harm, and indeed men are also subject to unexpected kissing! what do Ты have to say about that? i think NZ laws are written well and specified in order not to cause silly accidents like these! XD because that's what i think it was, an accident, he should have been charged for sexual assault rather than rape :)
coriann posted Больше года
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The same law applies to men so not sure what Ты are getting at. Violation is violation no matter what sex the parties involved are. I also never сказал(-а) that I think NZ law should be changed. I сказал(-а) that NZ is worded in a way that this case would never have happened. Then I сказал(-а) I don't have a problem with someone being punished for a crime. Nowhere in my Комментарий do I argue for the things Ты just accused me of.
misanthrope86 posted Больше года
coriann said:
wtf? i laughed when i read this and considered it a funny joke, emphasize on the word funny :P i think that the idea of putting french Поцелуи as rape is absurd, there are many cases in which people innocently (not meaning the person any harm) steal a kiss, either to see if the person likes them или to start up sexual arousal in the other person, if еще people got carried to jail for this i think it would be both unfair and ridiculous, i mean of course there are those times when someone does it as a sexual assault to the other person and therefore it should be viewed as sexual assault rather than rape
and yes, i do think they took it a little too far that time as they have done many times! i've once heard about a guy who got sent to prison for stealing a pen! indeed this man entered this woman, but i think the law was unclear, there is a big difference between sexually and sexually stimulating, the mouth cannot cause sexual stimulation, arousal sure but it cannot physically create sexual feelings, the law was unclear! *entering a persons body sexually* (obviously as Ты can see in the outcome* was too vague -_- there, i placed my point ^ ^

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posted Больше года 
youngtraveler said:
rape is sexual intercourse while the victim is unconscious. look up the meaning. is Поцелуи sexual intercourse?
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posted Больше года 
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That is not any definition of rape I've ever heard...
misanthrope86 posted Больше года
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That's certainly *A* definition, but not the only one. I think Ты may need to look up the meaning yourself.
Cinders posted Больше года
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@youngtraveler, Cinders is right
coriann posted Больше года
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