Always! I'll never see Brooke's 4x09 actions as sacrifice. Sorry, I just won't. Atleast not nearly as much as Peyton's actions in season 5. Brooke's feelings towards Lucas at the time of 4x09 are too subjective/up for debate. As opposed to Peyton's situation in season 5, in which it was made perfectly clear that she still loved him, and that she truly was sacrificing her happiness and feelings, in order for him to be happy.

I don't consider Brooke in 4x09 a sacrifice either. Even if she still had feelings I doubt they were as strong as Peyton's in season 5. You could just tell how heartbroken she was while telling Lucas she was letting go.

I know Peyton's feelings were still strong, but who's to say Brooke's wasn't either? Lucas was the only boy she's truly love and truly loved her. It had to be extremely tough to give him up to your best friend. I thought she acted pretty mature at that moment to still be in high school.

without a question... completely agree with the above 2 comments. we actually saw peyton suffer through her sacrifice, we saw how painful it was for her, and just how much she was putting her happiness aside for the sake of luke. whereas brooke seemed pretty content when deciding to let luke, and the triangle drama go. i never saw that as sacrifice at all, just her finally realizing that it was the right thing to do, and not just for LP... but for herself too.

I know Peyton's feelings were still strong, but who's to say Brooke's wasn't either?

nobody's to say. that's the point. nobody will really ever know, because it was never really addressed in the show. but it was proven that peyton loved luke at the time of her sacrifice. therefore, i see it as much more of a sacrifice.

but dont you think that if brooke was still in love with lucas in 4x09, we would have seen her hurting at some point after that? like we saw peyton hurting in season 5? but we never did. all we saw was her being uncomfortable after seeing LP in bed together, but that's it. i don't think that's enough to prove that she was still in love with him, seeing that would make anyone uncomfortable

Well we all know Brooke was the one to keep her feelings in. Peyton always let them out and we knew when she was hurting. Whereas Brooke tried to seem like she was ok.

Like she said to Lucas. She hates for him to see her as vulnerable.

^ yeah, in front of everyone she acts as if she's ok. but what about when she's alone? she lets out her emotions when nobody is around, we saw her crying by herself numerous times. but even so, we still never saw her upset about "letting lucas go" in S4. if it truly was that much of a sacrifice, then the show should have, and most likely would have made a point to show us how much it hurt brooke to do so. but they didn't.

I don't know why people think that scenes is so perfect & describes how much Peyton really loved him
Okay , she told him that she would let him go (i even liked the scene) but after that she still acted like a bitch towards Lindsay & kept on Lucas in some way.

Brooke knew that EVERYTHING Peyton wanted was Lucas at this point & for Brooke : Peyton >> everything, so she let him go & even pushed him towards Peyton.
... but for Peytons it's more : Peyton >>> everything or Lucas >>> everything.


Sorry , but this is my opinion on things.

Brooke knew that EVERYTHING Peyton wanted was Lucas at this point & for Brooke : Peyton >> everything, so she let him go & even pushed him towards Peyton.

peyton >> everything? is that why brooke went out of her way so many times to hurt her? and even USED lucas to purposely get under her skin? im sorry, but saying that brooke did anything FOR peyton during that time is crazy to me. its the opposite. everything that she had done during that time was for herself. it was earlier in this very same episode that she was making fun of peyton's dead moms. if she cared at all about peyton's feelings in early season 4, she wouldn't have done half of the things that she did. her little convo with peyton in 4x09 simply opened her eyes, and made her realize that she was wasting everyone's time holding grudges and playing games... and that it was time to end it all.

peyton in 4x09 simply opened her eyes

AGREE! Brooke realised that Peyton really loved Lucas & didnt just say that to hurt her! Brooke knew now that she had to let got of Lucas & I'm not saying anything else.
BUT just think what would've happened if Brooke acted differently in 4x09 in that scene with Lucas.I dont think LP would've gotten together so fast!


ofc brooke hurt peyton sometimes, even on purpose & somethimes she even went to far, but she just wanted peyton to feel what brooke has been feelings the past years now :/
it was definitly the wrong way, but understandable. (not the time she was making fun of p's mother through)

I don't see how anything was for Peyton. She spent the beginning of season 4 trying to get to Peyton.

I'm sure Brooke knew it was the right thing to do, but Lucas really didn't need Brooke's approval to go to Peyton he would've anyway. Yes I'm sure Lucas felt better with Brooke telling him to go to Peyton, but that didn't effect the fact that he loved her a realized she was the one. So I just don't really see that particular moment as a huge sacrifice if any.

I so agree Jess. Peyton NEVER ACTUALLY let him go so her sacrifice meant NOTHING.

^ never actually let him go? what do you call her sitting silently through his WEDDING to someone else, then? if that's not letting him go, and sacrifice..I dunno what is. just because she didn't end up staying quiet throughout the rest of the season (for valid reasons BTW) doesn't mean that she didn't sacrifice her feelings along the way. if Lindsey hadn't run out on him in that wedding, then he would have gotten married, with Peyton all along sitting silently in pain, watching. and it would have been a done deal. so twist it whichever way you want, but that IS sacrifice.

After 4.09 Brooke fully seperated herself from the equation, whereas Peyton didn't she stayed around and made sure Lucas was reminded 24/7 that she 'Loved' him. as far as I am concerned Peyton rabbited on about how she wanted Lucas to happy but always stayed in the way of him and his happiness. Brooke knew Lucas wanted to be with Peyton so moved on. That is the true sacrifice. I mean LPer's go on about actions speaking louder than words so Brooke did actually sacrifice whereas Peyton just spoke some words and did nothing!

and Brooke didn't let Lucas go?? see the episode of the basketball banquet. Its quite obvious after Brooke and Peyton's little chat and then Brucas chat.

^^ Just to add this is nothing personal before LPers think I am getting personal. Its totally not. just the fact I didn't see Peyton actually sacrificing.

Agree with Jess and Nic sooooo much.
I believe that Brooke was still had strong feelings for Lucas during 4x09. And Brooke completely removed herself from the triangle for Peyton's sake. Whereas Peyton acted like a complete bitch to Lindsey.

i agree that Peyton never actually let him go, as some BL'rs are saying, she just kept pushing somehow...but even though, what Brooke did was a true sacrifice, you guys talk about it as if Lucas was a little boy that can be handed to anyone when it's not like that and it was about time Brooke realized it (That Peyton was the one for Luke i mean)

^^ Lucas had every right to make a decision about Peyton but he still wanted Brooke's approval because he knew much of a big deal it was so yes she sacrificed for Lucas' and Peyton's happiness, whereas Peyton and Lucas had been apart for 2 whole years and after a long time he had moved on and was happy but Peyton came back and just kept putting herself in between Lucas and Lindsey. Seriously speaking just about Lucas, if Peyton had moved out of the equation and not treated Lindsey the way she did would Lindsey run out of the wedding- No. Would Lincus be married- Yes, because Lucas had already said I do! I mean it doesn't get much serious than that and nobody forced him to take that decision. He did it cos he was obviously happy and in love with Lindsey.

Peyton didn't let him go? Wow. lol Just because they eventually got back together doesn't mean she didn't actually let him go. It's not her fought Lucas came to his senses. What if Lucas eventually got back with Brooke? Would that mean she didn't actually let him go??

Like Kristin said if LINDSEY hadn't walked out then the wedding would've went on and Peyton would've still hadn't said anything.

Plus in Brooke's break up speech she said nothing about it being so him and Peyton could be happy. In fact she said it wasn't about Peyton but it was about herself.

I love you Lucas and I think I have since we first locked eyes and it is gonna suck, but if what you want is for me to LET GO then I'm gonna do it. Be happy Luke. I want that with all my heart

If that's not sacrifice I don't know what is.

I don't think Brooke was sacrificing Lucas, I think Brooke was sacrificing her own security. She was willing to feel insecure and uncomfortable in order for two people she cared about to be happy. It's very clear before 4x09 and throughout the rest of season 4 that Lucas & Peyton's relationship made Brooke VERY uncomfortable. Maybe it had to do with the fact that she still had feelings for Lucas, maybe it was because it was a reminder of how they had both betrayed her and hurt her so badly, or maybe it was because Lucas was the one guy she ever loved and now she knew she was sharing his heart with someone else. Either way- season 4 Brooke was extremely melancholy & seemed so unlike herself when she was around Leyton.
So Brooke was sacrificing her own comfort and security in order to encourage two people she cared about to be together. But I don't know if I'd say she was sacrificing her love for Lucas because I don't know if she was still in love with him.

I don't think Peyton was making a sacrifice in this scene- for many of the reasons previously stated by others. It seemed more like she was giving up because she realized she couldn't force Lucas to want to be with her. She tried everything else- she tried kissing him, she tried making him feel guilty, she tried fighting with him, she tried reminding him of their past relationship, she tried being mean to his fiance, she tried making his fiance feel insecure... and none of it was making Lucas want to come back to her. So it always seemed to me that in this scene she was either 1-giving up, 2- trying to make Lucas feel guilty, or 3- trying to win Lucas over by being sweet and selfless since being aggressive wasn't working.
And while Hilarie Burton did a great job in this scene making it seem like Peyton's feelings were sincere, I have a real problem with people who try to point out when they do something nice. It's like patting yourself on the back. You make a sacrifice because it's the right thing to do... it doesn't matter if others recognize your sacrifice or not. You shouldn't have to say "look at my sacrifice!!"

But if Peyton was sincere...
then why did she start fighting with Lindsey in the next episode? Why be a bitch and insult Lindsey & her relationship with Lucas. That's not really taking the moral high ground or making a sacrifice. By no means was Lindsey innocent, but if Peyton had decided to truly want Lucas to be happy- she could have shown one shred of kindness to Lindsey and Lindsey would have changed her entire attitude (as is shown later).
Peyton did stop herself from interrupting Lindsey & Lucas's wedding- but she already told Lucas everything and he knew exactly how Peyton felt... so she was just preserving her self dignity instead of embarrassing herself by interrupting their wedding ceremony.
The sacrifice I think Peyton made was at the end of 5x09 and into 5x10 when she was nice to Lindsey. She sacrificed her own comfort in order to be nice to someone who was loved by the man she loved. THAT is a sacrifice and THAT is difficult. It's easy to tell the man you love you are sacrificing your love so he can be happy, but then continue fighting for him. It's much much harder to give up your feeling of comfort and security in order to befriend someone you envy.

She was selfless, and did let go of Lucas. She may have been bitchy towards Lindsey after that, but Lindsey was bitchy towards her too, it was only natural. But after that Peyton did nothing to pursue Lucas and even went to NY to see Lindsey so that she would take Lucas back.
As for Brooke, she broke up with Lucas for her, because their relationship wasn´t working and considering the things she said and did after that, none of it was for Peyton. And in 409, Lucas was already thinking about Peyton before Brooke said that it was okay. I believe LP would have gotten together no matter what Brooke said or didn´t say. I don´t think Brooke sacrificed anything at that point.

I don't think Brooke let go of Lucas FOR Peyton/Lucas' happiness, I think she let go of Lucas for herself and her happiness.

What leytonfanforever said. Not gonna get into this argument again :P

Ehh I changed my mind and decided to pick neither because really neither of them were sacrifices. I think Brooke's actions were mature and for Brooke to encourage Lucas to be with Peyton when Leyton weren't together was probably really difficult. I'm sure it was difficult for Peyton to tell Lucas she wants him to be happy with Lindsey... but she didn't really have a choice in the matter cause he already told her he was going to marry Lindsey.

But neither sacrificed Lucas because neither had Lucas. I could say Peyton sacrificed the desire to jump up & continue expressing her love to Lucas in order to no longer upset Lucas. And I could say Brooke sacrificed her comfort and security in order to encourage two people she cared about to be together. But I changed my mind, and now I don't think they qualify as "sacrifices"- more just as emotionally difficult actions.

Peyton wasn't sacrificing her love for Lucas- because she still loved him. She wasn't sacrificing her future with Lucas- because according to Lucas they didn't have one. So she was just telling him she would back off and let him be happy. But that's not sacrificing anything. If the scenario was different: If Lucas told Peyton he loved her & wanted to be with her, but Peyton knew deep down that she could never provide the kind of happiness for Lucas that Lindsey could provide him with- so she lied and told him she didn't love him so that way he could be with Lindsey and eventually find the happiness he couldn't have with Peyton.... that would be a sacrifice. She would be sacrificing her relationship with Lucas in order for him to find happiness even if it meant she would be miserable. But clearly that's a totally different scenario than what happened (Lucas didnt tell Peyton he wanted to be with her at that point, Lucas said he wanted to marry Lindsey, and Peyton didn't think Lindsey would make him happier than she could)- but that's an example of a sacrifice.

A sacrifice has to be giving up something that YOU HAD and you will be hurt without, in order to benefit someone else. Neither girl had anything really that they were giving up.

It just baffles me how some people refuse to say that what Peyton did was a sacrifice. If Brooke was the one who did what Peyton did everyone would be praising her for it. People just still can't give Peyton credit. They can never give her just a LITTLE bit of credit.

People must have some strange views on sacrifice, because what Peyton did was CLEARLY sacrifice.

^ Completely agree. Peyton sitting silently in pain, watching Lucas get married to someone else (despite us seeing in her little daydream how she REALLY felt, and what she REALLY wanted to be saying and doing) is like the ultimate sacrifice IMO. How anyone can say that it's not, or act as if Brooke's 4x09 actions are more of a sacrifice is mind boggling to me.

Not everyone thinks the same & I don't think that what Peyton did was a sacrifice, because of what everyone has already said. But if Brooke was the one who did what Peyton did, I would still think that it's not a sacrifice. Because for me, it wasn't about who did it. It's about what she did. And these are two different things.

She wanted to stand up in the middle of his wedding, and say all of those things that we saw her imagining herself saying. But she didn't. She sat there silently, hurting instead. How is that NOT sacrifice?

I get that people see things differently, and may not agree. I'm just saying that I'll never understand it. It almost seems like fact to me that that IS sacrifice. And a pretty damn big one, too. But that's just me.

energizerbunny, I give Peyton credit for A LOT of things and really like her character. I think it's unfair to say that because someone has a difference of opinion they are biased or hypocritical.

kellyerin87, but WHAT was she sacrificing? I understand it's difficult to watch someone you love marry someone else- but what was it that she was actually sacrificing? I mean she was giving up her desire to stand up and express her feelings... but is that a sacrifice? It's something difficult to do... but it's not exactly a sacrifice. A sacrifice involves giving up something you have when you'll be worse off giving up this thing, but it's for the betterment of someone else.
It's not like she would be saying something Lucas hadn't already heard from Peyton throughout the earlier 11 episodes. So if she hadn't "sacrificed" her desire to speak up at the wedding, all that would come out of this sacrifice would be ruining the wedding even though Lucas would still want to get married- so it would make them hate her and she wouldn't even get Lucas. She already told him she loved him- that she's loved him since they first "locked eyes," she already told him he shouldn't marry Lindsey, she already told him that when they aren't together she feels like a part of her is missing, she already told him she wishes she had said yes to his proposal and that if she had known she would lose him by saying "not yet" she would have certainly said yes, she already told him that she came back to Tree Hill for him and that she missed him every day, she already told him they were supposed to have "always," she already told him how she buys his novel every time she sees it, she already kissed him, and she already reminded him about how he said they were "destined to be together"... so what could she possibly say that would make him change his mind that she hadn't said before?

If Lucas never knew how Peyton felt & there was the possibility that he might act differently had he known- that would be sacrificing her feelings for his happiness. But she told him everything, he knew everything, and yet he still said he was in love with Lindsey and wanted to marry Lindsey. So Peyton didn't have anything to sacrifice. All she would gain by speaking up at Lucas's wedding would be to gain the disrespect, possible hatred, and pity of the people in the church. Suppressing your desire to do something does not always mean you're performing a sacrifice...especially when it's something that would hurt the people around you. When you have nothing to gain from the actions you are suppressing (in this case- her desire to speak up at the wedding)- it's not a sacrifice. It's when you have something positive you could have gained, yet you don't do it anyway- that's when it (sometimes) becomes a sacrifice.

Brooke encourages Lucas & Peyton to be together despite her insecurities... but whether she had done that or hadn't- they probably would have gotten together anyway & it would just have been worse without Brooke's "blessing" or encouragement.
Peyton doesn't speak up at Lucas's wedding despite her desire to do so... but whether she had spoken up or not- Lucas probably still would have said "I do" to Lindsey based on everything he said up to this point on the show- it would just have been worse because Peyton would have interrupted the ceremony.

^ She was sacrificing her desire to continue fighting for him. Whether he was technically "hers" or not, or whether the outcome would have been different or not... that's not the point. She gave up doing something that she wanted to do and was passionate about, for the sake of Lucas' happiness, even if it meant causing herself additional pain. Period.

Something doesn't have to be "yours" in order to make a sacrifice regarding it. If that's your personal belief, that's fine. But it's certainly not fact. To me it's just about the act, not whether or not Lucas was her possession at the time. And even if he technically wasn't hers... to her, he clearly was. Together or not, he was still THAT guy for her, the boy that she felt was worth fighting for, and the boy that she loved. And she still sat quietly, watching as he married someone else. The effect on her, and pain caused was still the same as it would be if Lucas WAS hers. Because again, I'm sure Peyton did think of him as hers in a way. Therefore she still felt like, and thought that she WAS giving something of hers up, by not fighting for him anymore.

sacrifice: to suffer loss of, give up, renounce, injure, or destroy especially for an ideal or belief

I'm not going to spend days debating this, or write a novel about it. But I think that definition is self explanatory and definitely applies to what Peyton did in season 5.

You can't give up something that's not yours. But I agree that what was hers was her desire to speak up at Lucas's wedding- so she was certainly giving that up. But suppressing a negative desire isn't always a sacrifice (for ex: some people suppress the desire to do drugs b/c they don't want to disappoint their parents. and while that probably fits the criteria of a sacrifice, I have a hard time considering it one. I know that's so random but it's the first example to pop into my head).
She wouldn't have benefited by speaking up at the wedding (well maybe for just that minute she'd have satisfaction- but I'm sure when people resented her and found her disgraceful afterwards she wouldn't have continued to be satisfied), she only benefited by not speaking up. She was making a smart decision that benefited everyone in the church. She stopped herself from saying anything in order to respect Lucas and respect his wedding day, but I don't think showing someone respect or acting in a way that shows you care about someone else is always a sacrifice.
I think Peyton was classy, dignified, and respectful in 5x12. I think she experienced a great emotional loss when Lucas said he wanted to marry Lindsey... but I think keeping quiet at Lucas's wedding was more about doing the smart & respectful thing than about acting in any sort of sacrificial way.

But everyone sees things differently (hence the whole point of this spot-without differences of opinion this spot would hardly exist)... but I just personally don't like when people make comments implying that people who don't feel the same way as them are just being stubborn or in denial (that is NOT directed at you Kellyerin if you are even the one reading this).

@Abs07 Totally. Been there, done that! Lol.

Nice discussion here. Adding my two cents. Brooke's actions in 4X09 were first and foremost a realization that she and Luke are not meant to be even though she still obviously had feelings for him. Remember when Whitey was giving his speach, the looks on both Lucas' and Brooke's faces said it all: they both KNEW they were not a couple Whitey was talking about and nor could they ever become one. When Lucas said it to Brooke she didn't even try to protest. She realized it too. She realized that whatever feelings for Lucas she had, their relationship would never be the way she dreamed of them to be. And only after she realized that SHE cannot have it the way she wants she gave her blessing to Luke and Peyton. Before that realization she still was cruel to Peyton and mocked her dead moms. I think Brooke's blessing wasn't something she was doing FOR Peyton. She gave up on Lucas, yes, but it wasn't a sacrifice for Peyton or LP. I enjoy a lot of aspects of Brooke/Peyton friendship, but that episode wasn't the one IMO.

Peyton on the other hand was completelly in love with Luke at the point of S5 and she wanted a future with him, she came back for him (that's fact), she knew that he wasn't over her too and she knew that she will never be over him as well. She knew that Lucas is THE ONE and yet she let him be happy with Lindsey, she sacrificed her love for HIS happiness. She thought that if Lindsey can make him happy and if that's where he wants to be, then so it be. She lied to Lindsey about the ring to make up for being rude to her and she gave her blessing for this marriage. I view it as a true sacrifice. But all IMO.

Brooke's actions in 4X09 were first and foremost a realization that she and Luke are not meant to be even though she still obviously had feelings for him.

EXACTLY!! She finally realized that it just wasn't mean to be and it was just a waste of their AND her time being bitter, vengeful, spiteful etc.

I NEVER got the vibe that Peyton had a realization that her & Lucas just weren't meant to be. She still believed that her and Lucas were DESTINED to be together. That's why it was 100 times harder for her [IMO]

Honestly I dont think brooke or peyton really sacrificed so he could be happy. They both did things afterwards that showed they didnt mean it. but I choose brooke bc she was still angry at peyton so I can kinda understand that. The way peyton treated linsey was just not fair.

Peyton went as far as go to Lindsey and pray her to give Lucas another chance. If this is not sacrificing her heart I don't know what it is. She kept quiet during the wedding and watched the love of her life marry someone else. What else did you expect her to do?

I never saw Brooke sacrificing herself