SuperNerd123 @camib6 In the lost hero, it was mentioned that piper had a good voice (even when she was a crying baby!) so her grandpa Tom named her Piper (beacuse she had a good set of pipes), he taught her the Cherokee songs, and she knew every one of them.

parras2 sorry to rain your parade SuperNerd123 but i think you just want to hate piper, and I think your wrong for six reasons 1.Almost all demigods wish they had normal lives with normal parents 2. she didn't fall in love at first site she was given fake memories to think she had known Jason for a while 3.she didn't steel Jason from Rayna he chose her 4. when did she sing? 5.Kaptoris was fair game for thousands of years 6. Piper and Percy aren't the only ones with "special" weapons, for example Leo has one, Jason had one, Nico has one, Thalia has two, Clarisse has one, lots of people have them I don't think I need to say anymore

book-worm I agree with parras2: piper is the charcter that Rick riordan wanted her to be. There is nothing special or different about piper, she is one of the seven she has something that makes her different then other demigods but that's just because she needs to be special to be in the seven. And there is no way piper is a Mary Sue. It's just not possible. Rick would never write a character poorly.

Spikegilfer1997 Parras rains on teh parade She has flaws, they're just all fake as hell. Thalia was a character who had flaws but she was so badass she overruledb them. She's probably the most real of all the PJO characters and that's why she's my fav. Piper is the opposite like when Thalia became a hunter and keep going all the way to Tartarus. (Because Thalia was the best in the brief moment before she was hunter and that is how I will remember her) Once more, Jason is a Percy side grade and Piper in a Annabeth downgrade.

Spikegilfer1997 Bookworm^^ I was nodding mostly until I read "Rick would never write a character poorly" then it lost all context.

book-worm ^well it's just that I don't see someone with that much expirience and that much knowledge on writing and characters writing a character poorly, but that's just my opinion. That's okay if you don't agree with it. @spikegilfer1997- piper does have flaws, they all do, fatal flaws as well as other ones it just depends on whether or not you see them.

Spikegilfer1997 I know they all do agree with it.^ Of course their well written to apply to everyone of a specific taste. (Marketing plan)

book-worm ^ yeah, people like that tend to want to please everyone even if pleasing dverypne isn't that realistic.

Karaoke_Leo Erm...hate to break it to ya...but Piper is NOT a Mary Sue... Mary Sues are magically good at everything: How many times does Piper ever mention how she like FAILED at stuff. She admits over and over that she messes up, she's very humble. In MoA she feels useless because her skills are super unessisary. She can't really fight that good even... Mary Sues don't have flaws. Piper has flaws. She's an awkward teenager who is trying to make her love life work, while epically failing in the sense that she has no idea how to run a relationship. She struggles with feeling good about herself because ppl are rarely nice to her, and she was teased about her ethnicity. Mary Sues are also magically liked by everyone. Okay. Lets make a list of ppl who don't like Piper. Reyna, Drew, and basically all of the girls that ever teased her. She doesn't even fit in her own cabin well. She just sort of is an odd kid that even fits weirdly at CHB. Piper didn't steal Jason from Reyna. 1. How on Earth was she supposed to know there was another possible canadite in Jason's lovelife? 2. JASON AND REYNA NEVER DATED. 3. Piper definately deserves Jason more than Reyna. I'm sry. I LOVE Reyna. Love her. But she kind of asks Percy out in SoN, and sort of forgets about Jason, while Annabeth on the other hand was still, even in the spring after Percy went missing, doing all she could to find him, and apparently (according to MoA) crying over her missing boyfriend. Did Reyna do that...? Piper cares about Jason clearly more than Reyna... SInce when does it say Piper can sing? That's only mentioned in like fanfics. As for the magical weapon... Leo has a tool belt. Jason [i]had[/i] a magical coin/sword/spear. Frank [i]had[/i] a spear. Percy has riptide. Annabeth has her cap. Thalia has a bracelet... Demigods have magical items. It's kind of how it works. And the knife fits in with the book plots [i]so[/i] nicely too. Besides, would it make sense for Leo or Jason to have Helen of Troy's old blade? Riordan does things for a purpose. I apologize if I offend anyone with my opinion, it's just how I feel. We all think differently and it's okay if some ppl don't like Piper. I can see why some ppl don't like certain characters, I just wanted to point out that Piper really isn't a Marysue at all...

Spikegilfer1997 In conclusion I don't like her but there's nothing really wrong with her.

8xchristellax8 yeah really Piper's not a mary sue, like Karaoke_Leo said, she's an awkward person and not a lot of other characters even like her. theyre all SUPPOSED to have magical weapons, piper was supposed to be a special character cuz well, helloooo, the Seven of the Prophecy? But you have very good reasons to suspect that. Nice try :)

SuperNerd123 @Karaoke_Leo Reyna is the praetor of New Rome, she has to be there to protect the people from monsters and Octavian, she can't just run off to look for Jason, and abandon everyone else. But you can see how stressed out she id by his disappearance. Compared to Reyna, Piper's love life is going well. Reyna does not hate Piper, she has a grudging respect for her, and Drew (the only one who dislikes her) is portrayed as a complete bitch. Often with Sues, the only person who doesn't like them is the bitch. What do you mean her skills are super-unnecessary? she can charmspeak for crying out loud! and she can kick ass in battle! can any other child of Aphrodite do that? Mary Sues tend to be the odd (but cool) character that is so differnt (but so cool), and Like you said, Piper is the odd kid at CHB.

SuperNerd123 @Parras2 1. Yes, but in the Lost Hero, Piper wouldn't shut up about how she wishes that her dad was a'normal guy' instead of the movie star, she acted like that was the worst thing to happen to her. It was just so annoying, other demigods like Percy (who had to live with Smelly Gabe) and Hazel (who had to live with an abusive parent who was possessed by Gaea) had harder lives, but you don't hear them complaining. 2. She realized they were fake memories, that means she just met Jason in chapter 1, but for the fest of the book she acted like they were soulmates, (she was convinced that he was her 'twu wuv') it was annoying as hell. 3. HE DESERVED REYNA! 4. It was mentioned somewhere in TLH she could sing. 5. So why didn't anyone else take it? Oh right, because only a Sue could have a weapon like that... 6. Leo's toolbelt isn't a 'weapon' (a weapon is something you can use to kill or injure people), and Leo never used his toolbelt to kill, so it doesn't cpunt. Jason's magical coin was destroyed in the fight with Enceladus, it doesn't count, Thalia's shield isn't a weapon, because she uses it to defend herself, not to kill, it doesn't count, and as for Clarisse, nobody even takes her weapon seriously (they refer to it as 'lamer' behind her back).

8xchristellax8 wait did Piper ever use her dagger in a battle? just occurred to me.....cant remember

parras2 okay supernerd I can tell that your mind is set on hating piper, I was just giving you my opinion as is everyone else here and when I said "Almost all demigods wish they had normal lives with normal parents" I wasn't talking about how hard there lives were I was talking about how they want both parents p.s. Leo took out hammers and set them on fire to kill things p.s.s trying not to rain :P

wierdo4 Um not at all. Know what a Mary-Sue is before you speak. And the Mary Sue Litnus test doesn't mean anything given that it doesn't have anything to do with flaws which is what determines a MarySue. And Piper has flaws. People call her a Mary-Sue and complain about her flaws. kinda missing the point. And I love Reyna but why does Jason deserve her? He said in the Moa he doesn't like her like that at all. No one deserves a relationship where they don't like a person like that. And it's possible Aphrodite is controlling him ( which Piper fears as would any person). Piper gets way better in Moa . I hadn't liked her till then. We get character development (for those who haven't read it yet. And also on the Jason?Reyna thing: There'd definitely been a girl named Reyna doesn't meen he'd been in love with her, just that she played a big role in his life.

Spikegilfer1997 Still this is opinion so whatever.

meredog Ok.... what the fuck is Mary Sue?

parras2 a female character that is perfect in every way

meredog .... ok then.... PIPER IS SO NOT MARY SUE!!!!!

PixyStar436 Piper is a true Mary Sue. (Hey, that rhymes!) But I think that Kaptoris is PERFECT for her. She IS like the next Helen of Troy. Except not exactly. I dunno but that's MY opinion.

moniqua "Reyna is the praetor of New Rome, she has to be there to protect the people from monsters and Octavian, she can't just run off to look for Jason, and abandon everyone else. But you can see how stressed out she id by his disappearance" And yet, she basically stated that she wanted to date Percy. Not exactly, but she implied it. So, she wasn't being exactly "loyal" or whatever to Jason. Not that it matters either way, technically, because Jason claims he never felt that way about her. I don't really think Piper is a Mary Sue. She has certain qualities of a Mary Sue, I guess. But she's actually very original and definately has flaws. Then again, I'm no expert on Mary Sues...but I really don't think a "Mary Sue test" is the best way to figure out if she really is. Just my opinion! Totally cool that you don't like Piper, though. But I do! :)

Flowerma I agree with some of your reasons, however I do have to argue Piper does have flaws. But they're overlooked, this typically happens with Mary-Sues. If anything, this adds to the "Is she a Mary-Sue?". Piper in many ways is your typical "Poor little pretty girl, who has famous parents who pay her no attention, who tries to be unique, and a bada**" C'mon, Piper has way too many of the Mary-Sue characteristics. I took the same test as you and ended up at 70. I deducted points. (i.e How pretty she is. All children of the Goddess of Love - that we know of - are good looking) I have many more reasons than you do, I even wrote out a five page essay, front and back, of this character and how she's a Mary-Sue. (It was an essay for school - that I earned at A- on, all because of a few misspelled words. Spell check, I forgot about!) The only character I've ever written something more than 3 pages on was one character whom I hate VERY much (Ten page essay, front and back, A+.) Ginny-Sue Weasley. I do hope that you reedit that little piece of writing you wrote about why you hate her. Some of the reasons are a bit silly, and can't be counted because it's more of an opinion rather than a fact, which you cannot do when deciding whether or not a character is a Mary-Sue. Along with spelling and grammar, oh look at me! Complaining about someone else's grammar and spelling when I have the worst in the world. -.- Bleh. Ignore that last comment. It was hypocritical. I should just delete it...but I'm not going to, instead I'm going to make a spellinq miztake. Oh, and Pery realized he liked Annabeth after roughly 2 years. (it was summer during TLT and winter during TC.) and Annabeth crushed on Percy ever since she was twelve. (Secretly.) They kissed when they were 14, got together when they 16, yes, but feelings were always there. But it didn't take Percy and Annabeth or any other relationship a couple of days! Bleh. Nice job on the writing.

sarahthepisces "Yes, but in the PJO canon, daughters of Aphrodite are pretty much useless in battle, but not Piper Sue! She's a tomboy, she can fight, and look good in armour while she's at it!" So... what? You're complaining about a strong female character? A character that breaks stereotypes? An Aphrodite child with DEPTH? Oh, no, Piper doesn't meet the can-steal-yo-man-but-doesn't-participate-in-battles-and-spends-their-time-reading-fashion-magazines-and-updating-their-wardrobe! That's such a BAD THING! Terrible! "Mary Sues have no flaws, and just look at Piper, she has no flaws." Lol... you're dumb. "Also, Mary Sues hate themselves for being so special, they'd rather be normal. How many times have we seen Piper act like this? (The answer is too many to count)." Rich children experience neglect, you know; no one's life is perfect. The parents are always out working (goes for poor, too, really), and never see their children, and their children become sad and would rather be normal; which is not a bad thing. "She hates her beauty, in the Lost Hero, it's been stated countless times that she'd rather be 'a normal girl with a normal life, with normal parents.'" You forgot to mention that her hating her beauty has nothing to do with the 'normal life' thing. Those two things are in no way related to each other. She doesn't like the attention she gets from her beauty, and she only wants Jason, so, duh, she doesn't want the attention! And you can think "oh, she's rich and has a famous dad, she has such a GOOD life she can't complain!" all you want but the fact of the matter is that what comes with a rich, famous father is neglect. She never knew her father loved her, she honestly didn't; she thought she was this responsibility he didn't want. He'd buy her whatever to make her "happy" but what she really wanted was to spend time with her father. "Mary Sues usually fall in love at first sight, and that's exactly what happened to Piper." Um... no. It's not. What happened is her memory was MANIPULATED by Hera. She was to believe Jason was her boyfriend, the guy she liked for months before he finally made a move and kissed her. Then she found out all that was a lie. Those feelings she thought she had don't just evaporate. She can't just go, "oh? It never happened? 'Kay, over it. Bye." "She falls in 'twu wuv' with Jason, when she barely even knew him." No, her MEMORY WAS MANIPULATED and she couldn't accept that her memories were false. "It took Percy and Annabeth years to realize their feelings for each other, it also took Silena (another child of Venus) and Beckendorf years." Stop invalidating others' feelings because it doesn't match YOUR ideals. "Serously, it only took Jason Stu and Piper Sue a few seconds, if they fall in love so quickly like that, they;ll fall out of love pretty quickly too." They've been together officially, for real, for eight months. Fuck off. "Mary Sues also tend to steal another character's love interest, just like Piper, Jason deserved Reyna." Jason deserved to be with someone he loved - and that person was Piper. And Piper was introduced first, as Jason's love interest first, and Jason and Reyna were never dating, so SHE DID NOT "STEAL" HIM. AND JASON IS A PERSON. A GODDAMN PERSON. HE'S NOT AN OBJECT THAT CAN BE STOLEN. !!!!Also!!!! Jason didn't know Reyna liked him, or even remembered her for that matter, lmao. He just knew there was this pretty, smart, funny, bad ass girl in front of him and he'd stupid to not give her a chance. "Mary Sues also tend to have a beautiful singing voice, and a special weapon, and Piper definitely meets those requirements. She sings beantifully (without voice lessons), and she has Kaptoris." "beautiful singing voice" Tf you think she's not going to have a beautiful singing voice, when her power is charmspeak?! "and a special weapon" - Riptide - Annabeth's cap (Item, not weapon) - Frank's spear THAT IS A WEAPON WITH THE ABILITY TO SUMMON GRAY THE SKELETON. - Leo's toolbelt (which IS classified as a weapon because it could probably pull out small knives if need be, and it could pull out a hammer to jab someone's head in) - Thalia's bracelet (item, not weapon) - Jason's coin, Ivlivs (doesn't matter that he no longer has it, he DID have it) - and do I really need to add more... "and she has Kaptoris." lol so?? It's HER special weapon. Everyone's got a special weapon/item or power. "The only other person is the PJOverse with a special weapon is Percy," False. "but since he's the main character, it's ok for him, but it's NOT ok for Piper. Seriously, what did she ever do to deserve Kaptoris? Nothing." Well you're a pretentious little bitch, aren't you? Ignoring that jab at Piper, fuck you, what did Percy do to deserve Riptide? Keep in mind HE HAD DONE NOTHING BUT BE CHASED BY A FURY WHEN CHIRON GAVE HIM THE PEN. And, what, he's the main character so he can do whatever the fuck he wants?? Think again. "Now then, let's put Piper to the Mary Sue test at http://www.springhole.net/writing/marysue.htm. Piper's score was 77. According to the test, any character with a score over 50 should be re-writtten or killed off, so this proves it. Piper is a Mary Sue, I hope she dies in House of Hades or the book after it." Yeah, because your biased little ass could totally be reliable in taking that test for her. Fuck off. Just fuck off. And, ha, she didn't die. :)

RackelDemiGod Piper iSn't a Mary Sue (i know I'm late but I hate these things.) 1. You can hardly use the parent thing against her. Yeah sure other people have had abusive step parents but Piper's real dad barely pays Attention to her, making her do stupid things to try and get his attention. She might not have the worst parent but she definitely doesn't have the best. Percy has way better, with Sally and Paul loving and appreciating him while Piper's dad rarely notices her. 2. Piper has heaps of flaws, one being insecure. Some people say she has no right to be insecure because everyone tells her she'S beautiful and amazing. When you're insecure, you look at the bad things, not the good. She's also possessive, a bad fighter and can be kinda stuck up. 3. Piper deserves Jason more than Reyna. I'm sorry Reyna, but 1, he never liked Reyna back. 2. Reyna also like Percy and stopped liking Jason and 3.Reyna and Jason never would have dated in the first place, even if Hera/Juno didn't put Jason on that Bus. 4. Piper isn't the only one with a special weapon. Basically everyone on the ship has a weapon special in one way. Percy has Riptide, Jason Has a sword that's also a a spear Thingy, Nico had a scepter that raised the dead, etc. Piper isn't the only one with a magical weapon other than the main character. Percy didn't Do anything to deserve Riptide and Piper was choosing a weapon and decided on that one. 5. It's not OK for the main character to get and do whatever he wants. Also, all of the 7 were main characters. 6. Piper does have a beautiful signing voice and so what? Does that automatically make someone a Mary Sue? That is the stupidest thing I've ever heard. I'm sorry all writers out there, your character can't sing, because otherwise, it's a Mary Sue! Also, she has charmspeak which probably helps a bit. 7. Seriously, who wouldn't want to be normal. Piper is bullied at school (from what I read in TLH) because of her race. She's barely noticed by her dad, and when she had the chance to be his hero, she made him lose his memories. 8. It wasn't really love at first sight. Hera had made a bunch of memories and fabricated emotion so she thought she loved him at first, which later turned out to be true. Mostly because she didn't want to believe they were false. 9. That quiz was so biased. So reliable i think I'm going to start believing this bullshit. Fuck off with that crap.